Ryan has now identified me. I have redacted my name(s) to [id#00]. I repeat that I have never called Ryan's grandmother. If someone is calling her, I have no information about who it is and am unable to stop it. blackmail - Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
- Something of value extorted in this manner.
- The use of unfair pressure in an attempt to influence someone.
From: Ryan Roth <ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:07:01 -0700
Subject: Site removal
To: rfinfo@webscammers.net <rfinfo@webscammers.net>
Cc: [id#03] Now as you are probably sleeping I will warn you again. One of your friends emailed me and I now know a fair bit about you. I want this to end and I would propose the following. By all means you can post this if you so choose. I will not embarrass you, I will refrain from putting information on the sites about you. I now you are not [id#01], but he supplied you with information and [id#03] also. As you are the man Stalking me, I am tending to think [id#03] is staying away from this, but as [id#03] was involved and if this goes to court, [id#03]'s name will be involved, I am emailing [id#03] this also. If you think I am bluffing, I could understand, so lets say this. I have close friends in a certain industries in the UK. I know certain people in the UK. I am asking you to now STOP the website and STOP calling my grandmother. Or the following will happen. 1. You will be prosecuted for hate crimes, slander, death threats, malicious phone calls, stalking and industrial sabotage. 2. Members of my family will become involved due to your harassing calls to my grandmother. 3. I will come back to the UK and press criminal and civil charges and sue you for every penny you have. Note, at no point am I threatening you. Now, if you would like to 360 your hate against me and work with me, instead of against me. We should talk. Of course none of this makes any sense unless I really know who you are. So lets start with this. [id#00] first name - I will leave your last name out, so no one looks you up. I do not want to do to you, what you have to me for the last 6 months. I understand you really believe what you are doing is right and that is why I am giving you this chance. This letter has been BCC'd to 3 lawyers. 1 in the UK, one in the US and one in Australia. Why all 3? Well, your and Aus citizen and you live in London and right now I am in the US. I suggest you email me when you get up. [id#03], I now you hate me, thats fine and I do not think you are any longer having anything to do with th hate site. Since he has been calling my grandmother. I now everything about this man now [id#03]. Who he is, what his problem is, where he works and the crazy thing is, I have never met him in my life. This email has also been BCC'd to a few assocites as this is a formal request for the site to be taken down. What happends from here is entirely up to you. If you take this site down, I will not pursue any legal action, if you do not, I will. Regards, Ryan Flynn Roth Source: Email from Ryan Flynn (2009-03-11 03:07 UTC)
From: Ryan Roth <ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:17:48 -0700
Subject: Additional
To: rfinfo@webscammers.net <rfinfo@webscammers.net> this is just 4 you [id#00] I have to cc'd or bcc's anyone on your last name yet. You should also know, one of my oldest and closest friends are in your music world. I know everything about you - Where you lived, where you live now. I know what you do, who your friends with. You name it and I know it. Saying that I do not know your phone number, but thats it and I can quickly get this, to assist the police. [id#00], I would like to know why you did all of this. I genuinely think, as we have not met, you really thought you were doing this to help people. You were wrong and you have caused a lot of harm. I do not appreciate all this targeting of my family. Lets get this resolved and put this behind us. If my biggest critic was to work with me, I would be happy. [id#00], I have not contacted the police with this new information yet. I am waiting to see what you will do, how you will respond. I know [id#03] did not call my grandmother, so it is down to you and [id#01]. I can't say, I would not harm you if I was in the same room as you, as you have done so much to me. But, I am willing to forget and forgive all of this. Truely. I await your response. Also, bare in mind. The security team who now work with the foundation, can find out whatever we need about whoever we need now. I am in their debt for their assistance. Ryan Again, I make no threats against you and hope you make your next few decisions with care. Source: Email from Ryan Flynn (2009-03-11 06:17 UTC)
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 11 March 2009 12:11 )
The following conversation took place on Monday 2009-03-09, starting at approximately 03:30am and ended at approximately 09:20am (yes, really over a period of nearly six hours). The conversation was held (from my end) in the "Live Chat" box on the Our Planet Retreats website, (in particular, the Profits page). OPR: Hello
meeboguest661179: Hello
OPR: What do you think of the new site?
OPR: New video and things just added maybe 10 minutes ago.
OPR: Would love the feedback.
OPR: Had issues with people being confused?
meeboguest661179: I don't know.
OPR: No worries.... Ryan asked me to make it better been editing for a while, so hope you like it.
OPR: Hi [id#01]
meeboguest661179: My name isn't [id#01].
OPR: Sorry, wrong reply, Take care, here for questions if you like.
meeboguest661179: I am who you think I am, but my name is not [id#01].
meeboguest661179: I've just come to see what the new content is.
OPR: Haha cool
OPR: So what is the latest
OPR: Any good stalking going on.
meeboguest661179: I wouldn't know.
OPR: Oh, it's Ryan now by the way.
OPR: Seriously, you have never met me, yet you don't classify this as stalking.
OPR: ?
OPR: If you want a civil chat that is.
meeboguest661179: I was just curious as to why there were some new RSS entries for OPR dated last year.
OPR: Sorry, amending that. The person doing the site, just wanted them in order, it will be amended.
OPR: Prob today? If thats OK with you.... maybe thats worth going on websca.....
meeboguest661179: I don't think it matters what the date is, I just thought it was strange as I hadn't recalled seeing the video before.
OPR: Just finished today, for your records.
OPR: Can I ask you something?
OPR: Assuming you have never met me and your not [id#01].
meeboguest661179: It's fine. Really. I have other more interesting feeds to read.
OPR: I know, but I wanted to ask you something, if you don't mind.
meeboguest661179: You can ask.
OPR: So you say you have never met me. The reason for the site was to protect people, based on lots of people I had apparently taken money from for white orchid - Correct?
meeboguest661179: Not based on a lot of people from who you had taken money.
OPR: So what was it based on?
OPR: What was the reason you started the site??
OPR: I really do not get it.
meeboguest661179: Based on the notion that what you are offering does not appear to be genuine, and that people who have had dealings with you (not necessarily given money to you) had problems. I have since then discovered far more serious allegations which I am not inclined to discuss with you.
meeboguest661179: I started the site to help other people find the information that I had found.
OPR: Allegations - OK. So If I made an allegation that you are a pedophile, does this make it so until proven? Not appear to be genuine. Dude, I have 2 guys with MBE's that work with me, and 2 Doctors.... so where does this end? How does it end?
OPR: But why were you so interested?
OPR: In me???
meeboguest661179: You'll have to slow down message because I have to scroll back to read them.
meeboguest661179: I don't know the reasons for the people with MBE's because they haven't told me what their reasons are.
meeboguest661179: I don't think it is possible, based on what I've been told by people who have met you, that you have been rescuing girls from brothels for 9 years.
meeboguest661179: (as an example)
OPR: You still there?
meeboguest661179: Yes. Not to harass you, but because I thought you would want to respond. I didn't come to the site expecting an instant message facility.
OPR: So everyone knows everything you do?
meeboguest661179: Of course not.
meeboguest661179: I have seen your arguments in many places online, though, and I've repeatedly seen massive holes in your arguments.
OPR: What arguments?
meeboguest661179: I don't want to antagonise you now, so do not want another argumen.
OPR: If your not [id#01] - You can see how much he and [id#03] love me.... so why do you think it is me online making these statemenst - they set up many fake profiles of me and also of girls, trying to stalk one of my exes
OPR: Not arguing.... imagine your not [id#01] and I can get this resolved.
meeboguest661179: You want me to believe [id#01] was staling his own sister?
OPR: YES!!
meeboguest661179: And [id#03] was stalking here too? For what purpose?
OPR: [id#01] - had huge issues with his sister.... I intervened.... he could not get to her anymore and started on me. He emailed me from secret.stalker@gmail.com with a terrible email about her, terrible... trying to break up the relationship.... calling her a slut and this and that.... she read it and said the only person who could have done this was him.
OPR: The secret stalker account does not work anymore.
OPR: He also tried to gether friends and FAMILY to sign a petition to get her kids taken away from her. He family them had a HUGE problem with [id#01].
meeboguest661179: I've never seen any emails with that address.
OPR: His father calls him, His 3rd daughter.
OPR: I wont send you that email, as it is to do with my ex and personal things said about her.
meeboguest661179: All I'm saying is that I haven't seen any emails so don't have any opinion about them.
OPR: [id#03] - Well, thats just hatred.... Did he attack me in a public place, steal a wallet and phone from me... because I would not pick up the phone with his friend Andreas.... YES. He will admit to is.
meeboguest661179: As you know, [id#03] has been in contact with me, and he did mention that incident.
OPR: [id#03] and I have some issues that will not be resolved until we are both in the ring, or thats what he wants anyway.
OPR: He is a good man and we use to be very close, but he had some financial issues and wanted money back from something I made a much bigger loss on. Thats his beef.
OPR: So thats [id#01], and [id#03] explained the best I can. Who else?
OPR: Have I seriously never met you?
meeboguest661179: In one of your emails where you were obviously upset, you insisted that if [id#03] was your business partner, there should be some document to that effect. On your website you wrote that he was a disgruntled ex-employee and I think that is incorrect for two reasons: firstly, that [id#03] told me about your business earlier (which may or may not be true), but secondly because you wrote in an earlier version of your site that [id#03] was your business partner. You changed your story from one that fit with what [id#03] told me to one that painted [id#03] in a very unfavourable light.
OPR: Very simple, [id#03]s responsibility was a website.... mine was the company. There was no equal partnership, as there was no equal investment of money or time. [id#03] stopped around 5 each day.... I finished around 11pm. I invested more money, so he was an employee... not a partner.
OPR: You yourself said, the project looks good.
OPR: Why would I be doing this for so long?
OPR: Why would I not just changed my name to Joe something and start a new project somewhere else??
OPR: So explain to me, why there are photos of people holding up signs of ourplanet retreats? Explain to me why I went to PNG? Explain to me why charities are cool to affiliate with me if I am this terrible person you claim me to be?
meeboguest661179: Er, I'm not so sure about your definition of employee, even if the workload was uneven.
OPR: I am not arguing.... I really want to resolve things.
OPR: If he was my employee or partner, seriously, whats the difference to the point..... Did I take money from him, or did he leave a company and expect me to hold the bag for everything? Did he tell you, he changed all the email passwords and froze the company?
meeboguest661179: Chris tells me he has contacts in PNG and that he hasn't heard and bad reports about it. I don't really know what you are doing there. I'm supposing that you are trying to se up this eco lodge business.
OPR: I even have people you can reference on the team pages these days. Why did you email all the people who attended the white orchid event? Why did people go into office registration in the UK to harrass them... instead of lettting the police deal with it.
OPR: You really don;t think your a stalker do you?
meeboguest661179: My connection to the chat is unreliable.
OPR: Just make it large and the messages should get to you.
OPR: If [id#03] attacked me, if [id#03] changed passwords to email accounts - Who si the bad guy there?
OPR: There is no teacher saying anything any longer
OPR: Most of the fake profiles have been deleted.
meeboguest661179: It was me who went to see your office in London. I thought maybe whoever was there could confirm or deny whether what you were doing was legitimate.
OPR: So what exactly am I doing that is not legitimate>?
OPR: Did you vandalise my property in Aus?
meeboguest661179: I ave never been to your house in Sydney.
OPR: did you call my grandmother?>
meeboguest661179: I never called your grandmother. I don't know who she is and don't have her contact details.
OPR: So who did? [id#03]... he swares he did not do it.
meeboguest661179: I don't think anyone should be calling your grandmother, despite anything you may or many not have done.
meeboguest661179: I don't know who it is. No-one has said anything to me about it except for you.
OPR: Your site is damaging, you know that. Why did you privacy protect in canada and host in germany?
OPR: Privacy I understand, but different countries?
OPR: Do you know Gareth by any chance
meeboguest661179: The host is a host I was already using, and I didn't know that the domain registration was in any particular country.
OPR: If you have no proof, but some people bagging on me, what is the problem......
OPR: Why did you never email me to ask me anything?
meeboguest661179: The domain registration and hosting are completely separate.
OPR: Just start attacking
meeboguest661179: I went to school with someone named Gareth about 20 years ago, but I don't think that is who you mean because I haven't seen them since primary school.
OPR: I appreciate this open discussion, both parties being civil.
OPR: OK, so you are older than myself?
OPR: I really have not met you?
meeboguest661179: We really have not ever met.
OPR: Do you know about my fan club?
meeboguest661179: The photo of you in Los Angeles was sent by a couchsurfer to [id#01]. He never asked for it that I am aware of. The person who sent it was looking to find out if you were the same person he wrote about on Wordpress
OPR: 2000 'Warriors of God' targetted me in 2004, as I was not rescuing children in the name of god. I dont know if you have come accross them yet, but wow those guys were worse than you.
OPR: Death threat letters, the works.
OPR: Whats all the Dr. bull?
OPR: Are you a reasonable man?
meeboguest661179: I've not heard of Warriors of God before, and, not being religious myself, might suppose they are fruitcakes.
OPR: You never answered my question - have we ever met before?
OPR: You said about the whole [id#10], thing before right... something about him not being involved in things etc
meeboguest661179: I wote: We really have not ever met.
OPR: I still don't get it - What do you do? If thats not to much information. I Just don't get why such the interest in me.
OPR: I really dont get it.
OPR: now imagine your wrong about me.... what will you do?
meeboguest661179: What do you mean about [id#10]?
OPR: [id#10] was part of the first part of the org, he accepted money from some church people in the US, nothing to do with me. We did a documentary in Thailand together, which they then stole. They were the 'warriors of god'
OPR: Maybe some trivia about me you did not know.
OPR: Somewhere in the US there is a documentary, made back in 2005, of me interviewing child prostitutes and attempting to rescue some, which failed. Really dangerous on that occassion.
meeboguest661179: Give me a minute so I can reference something abuot what [id#10] supposedly said.
OPR: No worries.... if your not [id#01], maybe this can all be resolved. He is the only one with the comp skills to do what you have, and the time and freakish persistence.
OPR: hows London today? Weather wise?
OPR: Want to video chat?
OPR: Kidding, you would not.
meeboguest661179: Okay, so [id#10] is [id#10] who went to Thailand to shoot a documentary.
OPR: Although chatting on the phone maybe would be good. If I have not met you, I would not know your voice and this would also confirm you are not anyone I have stated on the site.
OPR: Yes [id#10] - Never met him.
OPR: He raised money for the project. Kept it, not idea what he did with it. Then claims he never took any. Well it was never donated through paypal or anything else.
OPR: His little team then wanted to raise awareness of the problem, 2 months later, 2 years later, now..... they never did anything.
OPR: do you have his email?
OPR: Or any of the aparent people who know him?
meeboguest661179: Let me check.
meeboguest661179: I'm not sure. I don't think I've been in contact with [id#10]. I'm trying to find if I have any contact details for the person who wrote to [id#01] (or posted on his site) about [id#10]
OPR: It's weird, that who group of warriors of god, were just odd. Look at me talking to my stalker. Well you don't have a name, so what am I suppose to call you.
meeboguest661179: I don't take your threats about your family attaking me you you destroying me/my life lightly and so do not want to reveal my name to you.
OPR: When did I threaten you?
OPR: My actions are very clear and public. I prove time and again I am targetted and people are messes up, like [id#03] with his actions and [id#01] trying to ruin his sister and then me. I have never threatend you.
meeboguest661179: You threatened me in several emails from your ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com account
OPR: If I saw you in a room, I would sit down with you and see if you had the guts to say anything to my face.
OPR: I said, you stop attacking my grandmother or there will be consequences.
OPR: Dont remember a direct threat.
meeboguest661179: Sometimes you said there would be consequences, and you also said that even if it wasn't me doing it, you viewed me as the cause and for that there would be consequences.
OPR: When I do find out who you are, which [id#01] is still a big one I think, then WOW.... that will be no fun for you.
OPR: It's odd
OPR: You would argue that you are doing the public a service.
OPR: I would say you are a stalker.
OPR: Think of the laws you have broken.
OPR: YOu constantly question my mental stability and the law is going to catch me.... For what???
OPR: Thats always confused me... what crime have I actually committed>
meeboguest661179: This direction of conversaion isn't likely to remain civil. I don't want to start an argument with you.
OPR: I'm not, seriously.
OPR: Asking question - What crime have I committed?
OPR: If you dont want me to call you stalker, what can I call you?
meeboguest661179: I'm just looking for something that I would suggest comes across as a direct threat - not as a poitn of contention to uset you, but as what I view as a direct threat against my safety.
OPR: why wont you talk to me on the phone, this chat thing does chat
OPR: If your not [id#01], and you want to make sure I dont accuse the wrong person, why will you not talk on the phone?
OPR: curiou?
OPR: s
meeboguest661179: I do not want to release my telephone details to you. I do not want to speak to you, generally, and that is part defensive and also because I believe that I would not be able to "compete", if you will, with you on that level.
OPR: Compete with me??
OPR: I do not understand
OPR: Civil chat on the chat feature on this
meeboguest661179: I think I would become anxious and feel pressured, perhaps say some things without thinking properly, and that the outcome would be you having a different impression of what I think about things than I really do.
OPR: The I know your not [id#03], your not [id#01]. being a responsible person, you would think this would be ok
OPR: You want to protect the public, I am offering to talk to my accusser.... whats the problem with that
OPR: But ok. I tried.
meeboguest661179: Compete in the sense that I believe you are a good talker / smooth talker / what have you, and that I am not.
OPR: Seriously trying to resolve this. In the end, the site hurts me a bit, not huge but annoying. It hurts the kids much more.
OPR: But you write code like a.......
meeboguest661179: I think the subject is somewhat complex, and not suitable for a reasoned discussion, expecting some sort of resoultion in 5 or 10 minutes.
OPR: Is that not irresponsible on your part? To not think of those who are now believed to be you? I would ask for maybe 3 minutes of your time on the phone. Thats not much and talk slowly.... No more mentionm of [id#01] or [id#03].
OPR: I have tried at every turn to resolve this. But you just don't want to.
OPR: I don't get it.
OPR: Your sources of info.... somoene who attacked me, an ex's brother.
meeboguest661179: You are of course curious about some of the information I might seem to have but am witholding. Let me explain some.
OPR: You recognise I have done some good things, yet highlight the things I am accused of, only accused. I dont get it if your not [id#01].
OPR: go for it. So you know... I am not curious, but in this conversation I am. I hope its not more accusations.
meeboguest661179: Ok.
OPR: go for it.
meeboguest661179: My personal belief is that there are some major problems with some (or many) of the things you say you have done, been involved in, plan to do, have in progress or whatever.
OPR: OK, so your belief. There must be more..... [id#11]... shit is that you [id#11[?
meeboguest661179: The first time I encountered an ad about Traveller 2.0, I was actually interested in traveling, so looked more into it.
meeboguest661179: I'm not [id#11].
meeboguest661179: I don't think I'm anyone that you are aware of.
OPR: Ah well.... OK. Traveller 2.0 go on
meeboguest661179: okay, so ads for the 30 peopel to travel the world. I've seen the arguments. You've seen the arguments (and been in a lot of them). When I first saw the arguments I defended the possibility that it could be okay, and to check out some more details.
OPR: I was never in any arguments or discussions about traveller 2.0
OPR: But carry on.
meeboguest661179: Actually, this part isn't really important.
OPR: Would you consent to a conversation with an associate of mine? He has an MBE great guy, trust him a lot. I doubt you would but worth a try.
meeboguest661179: What I want to say is that I was in contact with a number of people and they mostly were trying to get away from you and didn't want to be involved.
meeboguest661179: I'm not saying that you were chasing them by the time I had contact with them, but that they had problems in the past. Of course I can not 100% guarantee what they said was entirely the truth, but very different people were coming back with very similar stories, with no apparent reason for them to make up such things.
OPR: Some people havebeen like that with me because of your site and thats the only reason.
OPR: What did they say?
OPR: I remember a girl went crazy after reading your website... like really crazy.
meeboguest661179: I have heard, for example, of someone who gave the impression to the person I contacted that they were owed money somehow from Living Legends.
meeboguest661179: The person who told me that is afraid of what you might do to them or someone they know for talking to me about it. Similarly, other people are trying to keep their distance and don't want to draw your anger, in their words mainly due to their previous experience with you.
OPR: OK< - Someone gave you an impression - Not very strong there. So lets leave that one. But email them if you can and ask to see the contract. See what is said and see if I broke it.
OPR: Seriously - Thats a lot of people who have no name, not willing to go to the police or anything else. Am I the Mafia or something??
meeboguest661179: I don't know if that person was the girl who used her credit card as security for the clothes that were stolen.
OPR: I am either a broke englishman as you once said or an international man of murder, according what they imply.
OPR: Ah, [id#06] - Contract was never broken. The clothes were her responsibility and nothing to do with me, as much as she wanted them to be.
meeboguest661179: I haven't said that you are a broke english man by the way.
OPR: Her friend is the one who contacted you.
OPR: Why? As [id#06] knows I never broke the contract.
OPR: Cleaners were arrested for stealing the clothes. But for one weak, until the police arrested them
meeboguest661179: When I don't respond for a while I'm trying to catch up.
OPR: I weas accused of stealing clothes and donations. Then found to be innocent and no one appologised... quick to accuse and also said I was in Thaialnd was a prostitute.... funny as I was in Britany with someone I cared for.
meeboguest661179: I think the clothes incident was unfortunate, that whoever used their credit card as security obviously has to deal with whatever contract they signed. I don't think I've written any complaints about that. If I did in the past I've reviewed that impression when further information became available.
OPR: OK, so if it was her credit card... what is that to do with me? It was her clothes show... NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.
OPR: So next accusation - I like this... Surprised its been civil for so long.
meeboguest661179: I'm sidetracked again - with regards to there being people who are possibly afraid of you or who are otherwise trying to extricate themselves from further involvement - I'm trying to act as a buffer between them and you.
meeboguest661179: Please don't get upset about the credit card thing with me. I don't think that is your problem or fault.
meeboguest661179: (Well, it is an issue, but not one that you should be blamed for).
OPR: Your right its not.
OPR: Hows this
OPR: You say the accusation - I will explain or not.
OPR: NO names
meeboguest661179: lifeinthefastlane.ca
OPR: Whats the accusation?
meeboguest661179: (unfortunately you know who that is, but this is an issue that has already been made public)
OPR: Accusation please sir.
meeboguest661179: The large advertorial-like blog posting about White Orchid made it out onto the internet with a reference to you being a Doctor.
OPR: Did I write this article?
meeboguest661179: No, you didn't. But the person who did write it later says, well you read what she said.
meeboguest661179: Obviously lifeinthefastlane isn't the beginning and end of all truth in the universe, but her claim and yoru claim are opposite, so one party or the other must be incorrect.
OPR: Ah, but I never said I was a Dr. - So he said she said. Think about this one - [id#03] emails me every 3 months with general good things and one sentence at the start with Spanish abuse... 'your a cokroach' etc which he knows I will look it up and it always makes me laugh. You think someone who has been doing that for 4 years might like to cause me grief?
OPR: Next accusation please.
OPR: Come play checkers with me http://www.meebo.com/app/opretreats_266_1818861138___app___/#u%3dopretreatsmeebme661179%2540guest2%252emeebo%252eorg%26p%3djabber%26m%3d%26mu%3dOPRetreats
OPR: Just thought we could do this also?
meeboguest661179: Sorry I have been reading over the conversation and looking for a reference.
meeboguest661179: Sorry, I don't wish to play checkers.
OPR: found the ref?
meeboguest661179: I found what I was looking for, but it doesn't add to the conversation.
OPR: So new accusation please.
OPR: I think we are getting somewhere
meeboguest661179: I don't particularly like this mode of driving the conversation.
meeboguest661179: I'm looking now at "A long story" for something for you to answer.
OPR: OK so you drive it any way you wish.
OPR: Cool
meeboguest661179: Mainly because you are asking me to say something "bad" about you for you then to defend.
OPR: say anything you like
meeboguest661179: I'm concerned about the threats that you send to people, including myself. Maybe you don't view them as threats, but they are certainly taken as threats, and as such don't represent you as being a reasonable person.
meeboguest661179: I can understad that you could upset, even furious (and I'm not assuming) with me, but sending those kind of threats is, just as anyone calilng your grandmosther is or would be, totally out of line.
OPR: OK, so now I apparently threatend the person who makes a hate site. Lets move on from this one please.
meeboguest661179: Did you write this in your last email to me: "You TARGETTED my Grandmother and I will repay this to you in kind. our whole life will be taken apart. We will see how much you enjoy everything happening to you. MR STALKER/PEDOPHILE."
OPR: Yes I did. If your the one who called my grandmother, I will end you. If you did not, no worries.
OPR: So next point... lets keep this going.
meeboguest661179: My point is that the statement is not conditional.
OPR: Well it is.....
meeboguest661179: It is an accusation and what you will do as a consequence.
meeboguest661179: You wrote in another email: My family will get involved, asking me about you. My family and I will not stop to find you. You crossed a line, which you keep crossing. If you know people from my childhood, from my past. Ask them about my brother, ask them about my father. You do not want to have them involved in this. If you don't believe me, ask your friend [id#03].... ask these people who apparently know me so well. Ask them if it is advisable to do what you are right now.
OPR: If you did it and I find out for sure it was you, my brother will be visiting you. You can ask anyone about him, nothing I can do.... you would wish you would see me... He was in prison for GBH and ABH. Very nasty, but its his grandmother your messing with.... for me, I dont care a dame... do what you will, against her... your messing with a very dangerous person. Ask [id#03] if you think I am lieing.... he will not stop for anything... if he threatend Police, he cares little for you
OPR: if it was you.
meeboguest661179: That's a pretty serious threat, and it is making an assumption that I did something which I hadn't.
OPR: All true.... wow my father, I pray for you. Type in Mathew Barney into google... he will come see you. That wont be fun, he just lost a boxing match on Sky one the other night. Half brother.....
OPR: No assumption - IF YOU DID IT. Your finished... so I hope for you it was not you.
meeboguest661179: You're threatening me now.
OPR: No threat - Statement.
OPR: If you did not do it, then why is it a threat?
OPR: Seriously lets move on.
meeboguest661179: So who will be the arbiter in deciding whether or not I rang your grandmother? I know I haven't done it, I don't know who did it, and don't know how to stop it. At what point does your brother or father decide to check whether I did it or not? You can't say you pray for me then say it isn't a threat. It absolutely is.
OPR: Seriously, if its found to be you... nothing I can do for you.
meeboguest661179: Well stop fucking talking about it, because I didn't do it.
OPR: My father has a lot of money, he won't spare a dime to find you if it was you.... Me, thats my battle, whole family thinks that and so do I. My garndmother, well thats another story. They would only do something if it was you for sure.
OPR: Calm down.
OPR: Lets move on.
meeboguest661179: When you email me every few days saying that someone is going to kill me, it upsets me, you know.
meeboguest661179: (Not in those words, but the intention is menacing)
OPR: I said someone is going to kill you?
meeboguest661179: see previous remark
OPR: Ah, ok. Sorry to have upset you.
OPR: So next point... lets move on from this please.
meeboguest661179: I apologise for swearing.
OPR: Thats OK.
OPR: So lets go onto the next point.
meeboguest661179: As I said before, whether you view some things as threats or not the issue, it is whether the recipient (me, [id#03], [id#01], anyone) perceives it as a threat. You just told me now about how dangerous your relatives are with the intent to menace me, and it is something I have no defence against.
OPR: OK. So lets move on.
meeboguest661179: I had the impression that the person who was looking for you that I mentioned earlier was (or believed they were) owed money for work they have done, but I don't have the details. It didn't seem to me to be realted to the credit card thing.
meeboguest661179: And it wasn't from [id#05] (the one you wrote about on your site).
meeboguest661179: Living Legends was a long time before I'd heard about you, and I don't really know what happened.
OPR: Ah... OB... OB can jump off a cliff for all I care. I got 50 quid. Never did any work, lazy git.
OPR: [id#06] thought the contractsaid one thing and felt she deserved something else. Not my responsibility if someone does not know how to read a contract,
meeboguest661179: The impression I had was that LL gained interest and support for a while, but that the people lost faith because things didn't seem to keep up with the vision you sold them (or something to that effect).
OPR: So next point.
OPR: LL renamed to White Orchid. OK, so people accusing me of stealing might have had something to do with it, dont you think.... accusations are hard to recover from you know. But when I was found innocent, the thoughts were still there.
meeboguest661179: I don't know who OB is, and don't know who the person was other than that it was a girl. Is what you wrote about a contract just now related to something other than the stolen clothes incident?
OPR: [id#07] even appologized, but then acccused me of other things.
OPR: No, to do with the clothes.
OPR: Same person.
meeboguest661179: I don't know who my source was referring to in this case, so this particular question can't be answered right now.
meeboguest661179: However, the source says that this girl was not the only person who had contacted them with problems. I don't have the details and I am aware that this could not be true - another case of your words against someone else's words.
OPR: So again, you dont have any eveidence, any person to name..... can you not see how this all seems
meeboguest661179: I am continually struck with the fact that it isn't just one or two people who are saying these things. People who don't generally appear to be connected.
meeboguest661179: Circumstantial. Heresay.
meeboguest661179: etc.
OPR: Exactly
OPR: So your accusing a man with no evidence, not prrof etc which I have said before....Its not exactly strong is it?
meeboguest661179: I understand that. And I also can't go into some details in order to protect sources.
meeboguest661179: Please know that I understand the (intellectual) argument / point you are making here, but that my general understanding of the situation is not necessarily based on some examples that I can (or want to) cite.
OPR: So why are you so determined?
meeboguest661179: Just as people copy things to you, people also copy things to me, and some of the things that are sent to [id#01] he sends on to me, though I have the impression there is other stuff [id#01] hasn't sent me.
OPR: Yet its all the same, no proof or anything.
meeboguest661179: I know you don't like me to say so, but there is very littlle in the way of proof for a lot of your claims. I don't mean this in a sense of guilty-until-proven-innocent, but that there have been some heated arguments with you in the past that could probably have easily been dispelled with some solid information where you insisted it was secret or nobody's business.
OPR: So ask me now.
meeboguest661179: I'm not sure what is best for a specific question, but I have some serious problems regarding Global Energy. My recollection is that you said you were in discussions with various international governments and scientists, but couldn't provide any sort of references.
OPR: Global Energy ?
meeboguest661179: You also say that you've been rescuing girls from brothels in asia for 9 years - meaning since you were 19 or something. Is there any way you can back that up at all?
OPR: Prove I did not or it is a moot point
OPR: I have rescued kids over there. If you cant prove I did not, and I actually did, your only hurting the kids.
meeboguest661179: eg http://webscammers.net/resources/sites/globalenergy.wordpress.com_071223/Global%20Energy.htm
OPR: Imagine this 'Hey [id#03], I'm just going over to Asia to rescue some kids' 'Ok Ryan, have a safe trip, hope you don't get killed'.
OPR: A front page.... not exactly strong. But lets look at this 'opening talks with various small governments about GE working within those countries in the near future'. Where is the claim to be working with governments? Looks to me like something that was being worked on.
OPR: males no claim
meeboguest661179: I don't know what you did in Asia, Ryan. I wasn't there. I didn't see it. To say you have been doing something for 9 years suggests something that happens more-or-less continuously over a long period. You certainly haven't lived there for 9 years, so it isn't at all clear what you mean. For example, [id#03] told me the story about you being bitten by your dog at home, which you then appear to have claimed is a stab wound. If I speak to the other housemates and friends, will they tell me the same thing?
OPR: Let me ask you this
OPR: Have you ever been cut in the same place twice?
OPR: Have you ever seen cut marks my throat? Stab marks in my back on in my abdomin?
meeboguest661179: I haven't seen you at all aside from a few photos and videos you posted.
OPR: The throat was when I was younger, an attack in the UK. The back was, well that was something somewhere else, the abdomin also.
meeboguest661179: I don't know what you did in Asia, but it doesn't make sense to say you've been rescuing girls for 9 years.
OPR: My point is, the only person who knows what has happend to my body is me. That is the same for you.
OPR: I have been since I was 18/19 years old. How does that not make sense.
OPR: You have a belife, no proof, just liek the teacher and your harming kids in the mean time. When your found to be wrong, you will appologise, but say you thought it was best at the time.
OPR: Problem is, when you are found to be wrong, everything will change.
OPR: I would propose the following.
meeboguest661179: I can't find out if I'm wrong if the information I need is helf by you and it is secret.
OPR: If your willing to listen to something logical.
meeboguest661179: held by you
OPR: what secret????
OPR: Hows this for a secret - Tomorrow I have a meeting around 12noon with people from homeland security. About the stalking. Not kidding you, I swear. If something happends with it, cool, but not holding my breath until I meet them. Friends of friends etc.
OPR: They want to see if the hate site is a real threat.
meeboguest661179: Okay, I don't _know_ that you never rescued girls, or that you haven't been doing it a lot, or that you have or haven't been stabbed in whatever circumstances. It doesn't _seem_ like a solid story, and there isn't any evidence that you can or want to give me to change my mind, so the only reasonable thing left to do is say that I am uncertain and that it doesn't seem probable.
OPR: My consulate in PNG will also be involved, was when I was there I was followed by a blacked out car. All referencable. Unfortunatly it will all point to you.
OPR: Thats not something I was goign to tell you until later, but hey what the heck. Were in open dialogue today.
meeboguest661179: I don't think I knew you had been in PNG untill well after you had been there. I don't have any employees, and haven't sent anyone to look for you.
OPR: OK - Lets go on probables - I have a hate site and someone constantly stalking me - My grandmother recieves phone calls - See where this goes?
OPR: But you see what is more probable? A stalker following me calling my grandmother, who says he didnt do it or someone else who is annonymous?
meeboguest661179: Assuming the calls to your grandmother are real, I didn't make them. There can be no trail back to me becasue it doesn't exist.
OPR: Circumstancial as you said before, probability as you said before. You can have it both ways.
OPR: It is not probable I did what I said.
OPR: It is not proibable bad things happen and the hate site stalker did it
OPR: I want you to listen to me, just for a moment.
OPR: I want you to step back and listen.
OPR: I would ask you to take the hate site down for 6 months. If you have not seen a lot of things accomplished by myself, at that time, then put it back up. You have accussed me of many things, with no evidence. If your right, then in 6 months you can put it back up, if not, then you can keep it down and there will be an end to this.
meeboguest661179: That is nonsense. If I am to believe you, I'm already under investigation and going to be charged with everything in the book.
OPR: I would not press any charges if you took it down for 6 months.
meeboguest661179: If the police don't do a proper investigation, the person who called your grandmother (if it ever happened) will never be found and you will always blame me for it.
OPR: If the site comes down, this shows good will and that you are not out to get my family.
OPR: If you don't it just solidifies that the hate site and phone calls are linked.
OPR: The police will find this - A hate site - references to myself in a phone conversation. Calling me, do you know anyone out to do you harm, Yes, webscammers.net
meeboguest661179: I'm not out to get your family or you. I have intentionally avoided calling the police in the US about the threats towards me because I am hoping there is another way to resolve the problem.
OPR: You cant as there have been none.
OPR: Will you take it down for 6 months?
meeboguest661179: As I said before, that is your interpretation. I felt under threat and continue to do so.
OPR: If you called my grandmother, you should. But as I said in the emails, it wont be me looking for you.
meeboguest661179: Not threat of a website being taken down or that someone doesn't invest in my bsuiness, but physical violence.
OPR: If it is found to be you who did the phone calls, I would say my goodbyes to everyone. If your arrested for it, I doubt that would help. But this is only an issue if it was you. As you keep saying it was not, what are you worried about?
meeboguest661179: It doesn't make sense to me that you can run a business in the US without a visa. I keep bringing that up because I think it will cause a big problem if you are deported.
OPR: If you take it down, I will no longer think it was you and when asked by my brother and father, I will say the same.
OPR: I'm not doing your work for you all the time, but whatever Visa I am under is cool. A normal Visa Waiver program etc which means you can just enter the country and conduct your OWN business for example is generally a standard.
meeboguest661179: I'm worried about it because it doesn't seem possible for me to prove I didn't make the phonecalls, and you keep saying, even now, that will lead to some unspecified violent result.
OPR: So STOP guessing and look at things before you speak about them, its silly to just assume.
meeboguest661179: What you are engaging now, by the way, is blackmale.
OPR: If it was you, it won't be violent. Ask [id#03] waht my brother is like, seriously I'm scared of him, always have been... tired to strangle me in my sleep once.
OPR: Not blackmail.
OPR: If the phone calls where you, then you could view it as such, but as you prefess it is not, then it can not be.
OPR: I am asking you to be reasonable, to take the website down for 6 months. For me to prove in that time the good work I am doing without your website being there.
OPR: If you do not, this will make myself and my family, if and when they ask me about the calls to my grandmother think it was you.
meeboguest661179: not taking site down => assumtion of guilt => brutalization/murder. I'm not entertained.
OPR: If that happends, my brother and father will not be very kind to you and you would pray to be in a room with me.
OPR: OK Good luck. This now shows you made the phone calls.
meeboguest661179: Not taking the site down is not the same as making a phonecall, Ryan.
OPR: As you said you had not evidnecem you have no reason for the site. But as my grandmother is being called by you, I will inform those who ask, who I think it is. Really advise you talking to [id#03] about my brother. I wash my hands with the hone calls to my grandmother now.
meeboguest661179: What I wrote with the => signs in is my understainding of what you are saying, from your point of view.
OPR: You have NO evidence against me. None, so this is just blind obsession.
OPR: Ah. No, what my brother and father do to whoever made those phone calls, is, well, thats up to them. Say anything you like to me, never had a problem with it before, but grandmothe ris to far.
OPR: There are battles we all face, just if you made those phone calls, you selected the wrong target.
OPR: I keep referencing [id#03], as he will tel you of my brother and you will know I am not making things up.
meeboguest661179: Your threat is abundantly lear Ryan, and that is part of the problem.
meeboguest661179: I haven't called your grandmother. You have no evidence or proof, and yet I must seek your blessing for defence from your violent family.
OPR: Not I have never threatend you. Whoever made phone calls to my grandmother, that is who is is real trouble. Right now, as you will not take the site down as a gesture of good faith for 6 months, which I would think would make 1 year for your website, you might be able to find real proof.
OPR: Your a stalker - You have obsessed over me without meeting me. What the hell is my family going to think "ryan, do you know anyone who is out to get you" "Maybe". My father live sin Montreal by the way, so not far away from Vancouver, where you have privacy. Brother in the UK. You must deal with the consequences of your actions. And again, I am not threatening you. Imagine somoene was attacking your grandmother..... I don't have much to do with my family as of what they are like and this sort of thing, well they will not be hapy about.
meeboguest661179: I can only imagine that this is something like the way you engage with all your enemies, whoever they are, and if it is anything like this I can see why no-one wants to say anything. I'm not saying that is proof against you, but if you are trying to convince me that you are a good guy and that you do all the amazing things you do, this is not the way.
OPR: It's not a big ask, as you have no evidence.
OPR: Everything you say is he said she said.... nothing provable. Yet I have sites, people who work with me, people you can reference. So what is more likley, I am telling the truth and doing good work or that I am not.
meeboguest661179: I have been requested by another memebr of the NSW police to contact them. I phoned their station last night (Monday Australia time) and was told they are not available but will be in tomorrow. I will call again tonight. They haven't specified what it is about.
meeboguest661179: Other than it is about you.
OPR: Cool - Whats the name and number?
meeboguest661179: I am not going to tell you that.
OPR: As it is only 4pm there,
OPR: Why?
OPR: What would be the problem in that?
OPR: OH, I forgot your protecting the police?
meeboguest661179: In this case, I suppose I am in a way. I don't know what they want yet, so will wait and see. I am not going to make any decision about taking the site down before talking to them.
OPR: Well, your obviously not going to take the site down so I will tell my brother when he asks.
OPR: I don't care now. I asked, I was reasonable. Take it down or not, you have only supported that you are the caller.
meeboguest661179: No I haven't. You're just saying I have.
OPR: I have given you a chance to show it was not you.
OPR: this is my half brother
OPR: not my full
OPR: http://www.britishboxing.net/boxers_74-Matthew-Barney.html
meeboguest661179: No you haven't. You asked me to prove something I can't prove.
OPR: I asked you to be reasonable and to show you are not some crazy obsessed stalker, to take the site down for six months. I and others will not then think it was you making the calls.
meeboguest661179: The only way to prove it would be to get the police to track the calls and find that it was someone else
meeboguest661179: Sending the police is the reasonable thing to do. Sending your brother is not.
OPR: How... mmmmm 1471? Withheld number... public phone booth... how will the police not figure that one out.
OPR: I am not sending anyone.
OPR: I dont know you remember. You dont know me.
OPR: If your arrested for hate crimes and industrial sabotage, which is actually one of your crimes, prison... won't be the best place for you to be.
OPR: I have tried to warn you, tried to be reasonable.
OPR: I hope it was not you, as my family will find whoever it was.
meeboguest661179: You are such a jerk, you know.
OPR: how?
OPR: seriously?
OPR: I have a hate site. A stalker and you call me a jerk.
OPR: My grandmother is being harrassed and you call me a Jerk... what the hell is going on in your head?
OPR: even [id#03] has stopped since the grandmother stuff saying you went to far.
meeboguest661179: "I am not sending anyone." I'm sorrym but telling your borther something you know will piss him off with certain consequences is sending your brother. Your "logic" doesn't confuse or escape me, it's just bloody wrong.
OPR: How do I know it was not you when your stalking me? Think about it?? Who else could it be.
meeboguest661179: [id#03] stopped because he has something to lose and you don't.
OPR: What does he have to loose?
OPR: Do you get crysanthinum tea in the UK these days.... tastes good.
meeboguest661179: His respect, his family, his job. The usual things in life, I suppose.
OPR: and I dont lol my family have been behind me since all of this and still are, job well its my company, respect from my friends... just a handful I have. [id#03] is right though
meeboguest661179: Youve already declared that everyone you think is involved is going to have a "great year" (irony noted).
OPR: They will.....all associated with you.
meeboguest661179: And you think that isn't a threat? Really and truly?
OPR: My family is not involved yet, my grandmother has not told them I think... but I expect she will at some point.
OPR: Karma
OPR: You stalk me, you think good things will happen to you?
OPR: I have been open and tried to be reasonable with you. You have stalked me.
meeboguest661179: I'm not staling you.
OPR: You have attacked a man with not proof of your accusations.
meeboguest661179: Just as you attak me, only with more serious accusations and more serious consequences.
OPR: Stalking you are, an obsessive desire to find information about another. What part of that are you not doing>
OPR: I have not threatend you at any point.
meeboguest661179: By that definition, are you stalking me, or is it somehow different?
OPR: Is that a confession that it was you who ade the phone calls?
OPR: Haha... I'm not trying to find anything out about you. Thats the police
OPR: I let them deal with that.
meeboguest661179: No. At no time have I ever called your grandmother or (to my knowledge) any member of your family.
OPR: Now my family might end up being like that later, who knows. Wouldnt your dad try to protect his mother?
OPR: Here is a question
OPR: If you stepped back from this scene
OPR: Who would you think was calling my grandmother about me?
meeboguest661179: What I mean is, you have attacked a man with no proof f your accustions.
OPR: I have not attacked any man without proof, who have I attacked?
OPR: [id#01]'s commenst on a website - I will throw a party if Ryan is dead. A hate site managed by you or [id#03] who emails me every few months. Yet I can prove all of this and you can prove nothing I have apparently done.
OPR: So who have I accused?
meeboguest661179: You are attacking me about this grandmother bullshit with no proof. You have on numerous occasions, including in this conversation (I think) stated without question that you believe I have done it, that I have done it, that I continue to do it, and whoever did it is going to meet some unspecified violent end with you and or your brother(s) and/or father
OPR: No, I actually said I suspect it was you, as you have a hate site about me, which makes logical sense. I also stated, if it was you, you should be very careful as others will be looking for you. If it was not you, why are you so concerned?
meeboguest661179: If you would care to review the emails you sent me, you would find that you said it was me without qualification or dependancy.
OPR: I'm not a slow man by any means, but wouldnt you think a man who made a hate site about you, would also be the man who made the phone calls?
meeboguest661179: I don't believe it is a hate site.
meeboguest661179: It is not driven by hate, it is driven by good-cause belief that your activities are dubious at best.
OPR: OK. If you say thats what I said. I would now say, it makes logical sense to be you and you are the person it is most likley to be. Also, I have asked you to take the site down for 6 months, in which time you can provide proof of what I have done wrong or I can proove some great work I will do in that time. But you will not, so again it points to you making th phone calls.
meeboguest661179: It is very late, Ryan. I'm not sure if you make the conversation go this way to irritate me on purpose, but it isn't healthy.
OPR: No good cause - Think about this - What if everything I am doing is the truth?
OPR: Whats the time?
meeboguest661179: It is about 7:20am
OPR: So its early.
OPR: Dude your the one who makes essay emails.
OPR: Lets finish then on this.
OPR: The site comes down for 6 months
OPR: If it does
meeboguest661179: This has been going on for nearly 4 hours, in case you hadn't noticed. Since around 3:30am. 7:20am is very late.
OPR: I will not think you made the calls.
OPR: If not - Good luck. Police and family.
OPR: Unfortunatley
OPR: whoever made those calls, makes it look like it was you.
OPR: YOu have given me no reason to think otherwise
OPR: Your asking me to believe a stalker?
meeboguest661179: Therin lies the threat. Therin lies the blackmale.
OPR: No threat. A threat implies something that might happen.
OPR: I have told you what will
meeboguest661179: Like your brother beating the shit out of me and/or killing me.
meeboguest661179: That is not a sensible distinction.
meeboguest661179: And hardly an excuse.
OPR: I never said thats what he would do.
OPR: He is not to do with me
OPR: I told you he will not be happy.
OPR: Also it is not blackmail
OPR: by its own definiation. Blakmail is the threat to reveal info about someone else.
OPR: I dont care about your info.
OPR: Actually, if you did not hide, then no one would think you were stupid enough to call my grandmother. But I have given you option and you will not take them.
OPR: Actually thought you might take it down, due to the fact you have no evidnece on your site and that if it was not you making the threats to my grandmother, you would see your website was partly to blame.
meeboguest661179: Perhaps it is not blackmail (I just had a look at a definition). The common-usage meaning is not the technical definition.
OPR: Exactly - I actually understood what you ment, maybe just the way we use it today as a common mistake/.
meeboguest661179: Though, "technically", you are offering to protect me from prosecution (for alleged illegal acts) by doing something for you, and I think that would fit even the technical defintion
meeboguest661179: blackmail 2. the use of unfair pressure in an attempt to influence someone
OPR: Sure - sound better than blackmail.
meeboguest661179: (that fits my common usage understanding)
OPR: unfair preasure - does not apply. If you did not make the phone calls, then it doe snot apply.
meeboguest661179: You've said numers times, even a minute or so ago, that eithe I did it and it is my fault. I am unable to prove that I didn't do it (taking the site down is not in any way the same as proving an unrelated act), and that is unreasoable.
meeboguest661179: Sorry, unreasonable => unfair pressure (with the pressure coming from the consequences you allude to)
OPR: You say it was not you - Prove it, take the site down for six months. this will show it was not you.
meeboguest661179: Basically, from what you continue to say, is that unless I do something of your choosing, even without any proof, you will see me harmed.
meeboguest661179: b.f.s. bull-fucking-shit.
OPR: i will not see you harmed. Remember, I dont know who you are.
OPR: ?? bfs?? whats that to do with?>
meeboguest661179: have me, want me, wish me, "tell your brother", etc. Splitting terms here does not change te reality of what you imply.
OPR: If you were in the same room as me, wow... that would be crazy, but I wont be in the UK and wont hunt you down.
OPR: It is my granmother and others grandmother or great gran.... not just me your messing with.
meeboguest661179: Taking the site down does not prove anything related to your grandmother. That is what the b.f.s comment was about.
OPR: I;m very clear in my words.
meeboguest661179: You are fucked with your words, Ryan.
OPR: Ahh... actually it would in my eyes. Nut no worries, you made your choice.
OPR: Have I sworn or have you on multiple occassions?
OPR: I'm very clear in what I say and how I say it.
meeboguest661179: I have sworn on a couple of occasions in this conversation. Conversely, you have issued threats of violence. You have been very clear in saying that you don't care what I do - if you ever find out who I am I am in serious trouble. That is what you have "said".
OPR: No, your mistaken. I neither care or am trying to find out who you are.
OPR: Come video/audio call with me http://www.meebo.com/app/opretreats_2_1885113149___app___/#u%3dopretreatsmeebme661179%2540guest2%252emeebo%252eorg%26p%3djabber%26m%3d%26mu%3dOPRetreats
OPR: Can you see me?
meeboguest661179: I'm not looing at the site Ryan.
meeboguest661179: And my laptop does not have a camera.
OPR: Can you hear me?
OPR: ah well.
meeboguest661179: I am typing into a tiny "Live Chat" gadget on the opretreats.wordpress.com site. There is no video.
OPR: I have told you, I have not threatened you so stop saying I have.
meeboguest661179: I'm really disappointed that you continue to threaten me, Ryan.
OPR: If you were in the same room with me..... thats different.
OPR: I am so sorry to disappoint my stalker.
OPR: That I have not threatened
OPR: You say you did not make the calls... so if I was you, I would walk without worry.
meeboguest661179: I don't trust you or your (apparently violent) family to not harm me on the basis of something which I apparenltly can not prove.
OPR: Wow a stalker does not trust me??Thats funny.
OPR: If you say you did not do it, don't worry about it.
meeboguest661179: I'm not worried about me not doing it, I'm worried about you saying I did it even though I haven't.
OPR: Seriously, I am sure whoever it is will be found with the evidence that we have.
meeboguest661179: When you say "we", I hope you mean the police.
OPR: I am a fair man, I don't care what peopel accuse me of, I care about what can be proven, even with the hate site. I am not saying that is the case for all people.
OPR: no I was not actually. police are investigating the hate site. they don't know of the phone calls to my grandmother yet, I will help my family any way I can to find who is attacking my grandmother.
meeboguest661179: So mr truth and honesty, would you like to email me a copy of this chat session?
meeboguest661179: I can email you a copy for you to send back if you like.
OPR: You say it was not you, so dont worry about it. Seriously, I am sure whoever it was, we will find.
OPR: ????
OPR: I have the last 3 minutes of chat
meeboguest661179: I have the entire conversation.
OPR: It cuts in and off.... doesnt say who you are
OPR: cool. so what is the point of this exactly?
meeboguest661179: We can ask another person if they think what you wrote is a threat or not. You say it isn't, and if you are so confident then you shouldn't be concerned about anyone else reading it, right? It is possible for you to say this convesration never happened otherwise.
OPR: This is the end of the conversation I think - 1. Take the site down for 6 months to show you are not attacking my grandmother. 2. Don;t take it down.
meeboguest661179: This is another reason I dont' want to talk to you on the phone.
OPR: It's possible for me to say many things. But you make stuff up about me all the time, so I don't think this will be any different.
meeboguest661179: I don't want to receive verbal threats from you without any evidence.
OPR: But you could record me on the phone.
OPR: Ah, then take this to the police and I will be happy to discuss with them HAPPY then they will know who you are and can liase while I prosecute you for hate crimes. Hows that ? If you have not committed any crimes, you would not have aproblem with this.
OPR: I know the law, I know what is a threat and what is not. I know what is coercios, what is extortion, what is blackmail not blackmale. I know what I can and can not say without threat of presecution and I know what a hate crime is, what stalking and harrassment is.
meeboguest661179: There is a lot of hate coming from you these past few hours, Ryan.
OPR: No hate, hate towards the person who made the phone calls.... but you said it was not you, so not hate towards you. Surely you would hate a person low enough to target your grandmother?
meeboguest661179: You have said I did it. Were those typos every time?
OPR: Are you taking it down? Last time I am asking..... last time I will ever ask.
OPR: I said I suspect you did it based on you not taking the site down. If you think calling my grandmother is so wrong, you should not have a problem to do this.
meeboguest661179: You said I did it. On numerous times.
OPR: You keep saying the same thing.
OPR: Prove you did not
OPR: I have said how you can do this.
OPR: I wont say it again.
meeboguest661179: Sorry, you want me to prove that I did not do what?
OPR: Last time
meeboguest661179: "Saying the same thing" - what am I saying?
OPR: Take the site down for 6 months to prove it was not you who made the phone calls
meeboguest661179: Ryan, taking the site down and proving who made te phonecalls are not related.
meeboguest661179: Taking the site down is just something you want.
OPR: Yes it is and yes it is. You dont take the site down, all signs point to you.
OPR: Not asking again. Going to bed myself.
OPR: You have a clear choice.
meeboguest661179: All the signs facing your direction?
OPR: Take your chances with the police and my family or take the website down. Either way, its off of me. You take the site down and nothing happedns or you don;t and the police and my family find you and the site is taken down.
OPR: Stay stubborn if you wish.
meeboguest661179: This contract (of sorts) that you propose. So far there is nothing in this contract that says I couldn't create a new site with the same information. Would that be fair according to the way you like to use contracts and definitions?
meeboguest661179: I'm asking this to hold a mirror to your actions, not to sugest that I would do such a thing.
OPR: Mirror to my actions, don't understand.
OPR: You take the site down, of course you could not then start another.
meeboguest661179: Yes, of course I could (hypothetically)
OPR: It's all up to you, you know what your choices in this are. This is not like some kids game, this is all very serious and messing with peoples lives.
meeboguest661179: Well, your end of the bargain is to call of the dogs, as it were. Pehaps there is a similar way for you to get around your end of the bargain.
meeboguest661179: And hence there can be no deal.
OPR: ?? get around?
meeboguest661179: Or you could just go against the deal anyway, in whcih the consequences for me are unacceptable.
OPR: i have nothing to gain from you having harm done to you... if anything some people would understand and other would not.... point of fact, I am not my brother and not my father.
meeboguest661179: No, but if you decide to, you might happen to tell your father either that I did, or you beleieve I did, call your grandmother. With malicious intent.
OPR: 1. if it was not you making the phone calls, I am sure the right person will be found with what we know so far. 2. It does not benefit me for harm to come to you. Look at [id#03] and [id#01], I know where [id#03] lived in the UK, while he was causing me grief, I never got my family involved as it wss my battle.
OPR: Sure I could do that, but why would I?
meeboguest661179: Because I've angered you.
OPR: LOL
meeboguest661179: Why would you do anything? I don't know, I think you are deluded, but that doesn't mean I have any understanding of what you believe or why you believe it.
OPR: You have not angered me.... the person who made the calls, whoever it is has made me FURIOUS!!!!!
OPR: If there is not site for, why would I think anything, but you are actually just trying to be a servide to protect the people.
OPR: My concern is not actually for you
meeboguest661179: You know, there is a way that I could try to prove to you that it wasn't me, but that would incolve me speaking to your grandmother, who would hopefully realise that it wasn't me on any other occasion (assuming it ever happened). Clearly this has problems in that it would involve me speaking to your grandmother.
OPR: I expect my father would want to, have a chat with you..... my briother, well he went inside a few times.... Eye for an eye and all that..... strangled me in my sleep, hospitalised me twice and I am his brother.
OPR: Only one way out of this for you I'm affraid, maybe 2.
OPR: One you take the site down, 2 you present yourself to the police, with a time for me to call the station and we can have a chat together with the police officer
meeboguest661179: I've already been in contact with the Canadian police and your NSW Police contact.
meeboguest661179: I've been asked by another NSW Police person to contact them, and I am in the process of doing that. I was told they will be in "tomorrow" (which I'm supposing is about 12 hours from now)
OPR: COOL Canada on emails and NSW.... your in the UK so police station there, pleae.
OPR: They are in now.... its not late there
meeboguest661179: It is 9pm on Monday in Australia.
meeboguest661179: I called about 7 hours ago.
OPR: Whatever, what are you going to do.
OPR: It's 1am here, gonna watch a flick and hit the sack.
OPR: /So what s your choice
meeboguest661179: My choice is to post this conversation on the site, which you can deny if you so choose, and in the argument between you and me that would make it pretty clear where you stand.
OPR: Post it wherever you like....
OPR: Also include, your not willing to go to the police in the UK.
meeboguest661179: I have already written to the police in the UK,
OPR: wow a letter.
OPR: Here it is.
OPR: This is what I am doing.
meeboguest661179: Yes, they know where to find me, and they haven't asked for anything.
OPR: I will now liase with us departments and UK
meeboguest661179: That is your job isn't it - a modern day liason?
OPR: If asked who I think contacted my grandmother, I will say I think it was you.
OPR: liase on you
OPR: play your games..... no worries to me.
meeboguest661179: Yes, Ryan, I'm playing the I-didn't-phone-your-grandmother-but-I'm-happy-for-you-to-threaten-me-as-though-I-did game.
OPR: game?
OPR: where is the threat?
meeboguest661179: Only I'm not very good at that game. I always find I can't manage to be happy about it.
OPR: Shame
OPR: no going back for you now.
meeboguest661179: Fuck you Ryan.
meeboguest661179: Fuck. you.
OPR: No going back
OPR: Your going down, police will be the best part.
OPR: know how to spell blackmale yet? maybe blackmail.
meeboguest661179: blackmail
OPR: You will enjoy prison.... they like fresh meat I am toild
OPR: told
meeboguest661179: Ryan, I know about the shit you pulled in Sydney.
OPR: Shit?
meeboguest661179: Yes Ryan. Why is it that you can't go back to Sydney?
OPR: Well, you knew about the shit I pulled in the UK.... yet did not find proof. You then said shit whereever else?
OPR: now sydney..... OK> So your source of info was from who?
OPR: no matter really.
meeboguest661179: It doesn't matter who it is from Ryan.
meeboguest661179: Besides which I'm not telling you.
OPR: Your not my problem anymore.... your for the police and my family
OPR: LOL wont say what or who.... nice.... so another state secret.
OPR: Cool.
meeboguest661179: Yes.
OPR: Oh, wait your in the UK..... we have not met.....BULL
meeboguest661179: The email from Vichetr at SSF, well, you read that yourself.
OPR: Yes, you would also be warned to read it properly.
OPR: Vichter is amending what he wrote, as it was not entirely correct. Never promised any books, just to advise.
OPR: What about Micky? You said I promised to cover his costs??
meeboguest661179: Whether you promised any particular books isn't exactly the point, even if you think it is.
OPR: Lets see - Insults from you to me.... many sware words.... from me to you 0.
meeboguest661179: I don't know about Mickey. Someone else said you didn't cover his costs. I don't konw how they got that information. I haven't heard from Mickey.
OPR: Actually it is the point, I advised on terra prett and cash crops, all I promised, all I delivered.
OPR: SHOCKING!!! a nother mystery in your cunning web of no names or evidnece..... how willI I survive.
meeboguest661179: That's wonderful. I'm glad you have a god star for doinf a great job. Why is Vichetr so upset with you? Regardless of the _technicality_ of what you _actually promised_ (from your point of view), it seems clear that someone dealing with real life in Cambodia is really unhappy about what went down.
meeboguest661179: Perhaps your lack of cultural understanding blinded you to the thought that they believed something else, and on that belief they went and did a bunch of things, or wanted to do a bunch of things, that didn't actually help them. And for that you want to make sure you get some kind of brownie points or a line to stick on your resume. You wave the finger at me and say i'm harming the children or some other similar bullshit, and here we have a person telling you to your face you were not helping and you somehow don't believe it.
OPR: WOW you really are crazy.
OPR: YOur assuming again.
OPR: You constantly harassing people get to them sometimes. You harrasing my associates has affected some things, which means I can help less. But no worries.
meeboguest661179: Okay, a minute or so ago you wrote that Vichetr's email was "not entirely correct". By that I suppose there was some defect in some particular detail(s). That much I figured out from myself when I saw something else. What you will have a hard time convincimg me of is that Vichetr is happy about his experience from your contribution. Perhaps he made some incorrect assumptions, perhaps he didn't read his "contract" closely enough. I didn't harass him, I asked him about some information which one would think would be a glowing reference for you, but it wasn't.
meeboguest661179: You even taunted me about sending an email in August for which I didn't receieve a response, saying that was a pretty poor reason to hold some belief I had. And so I tried sending an email again to try to confirm or deny the allegations, and it turns out you ended up looking bad.
OPR: actually you mentioend his org on your site, saying you emailed them with no reply then later said this or that of them.
OPR: victer is not happy, as he wants money .... not from me, but from anyone. They have a small org, struggling and you think you mentioning them on a hate site was a good thing??? Wlel done... coudos.... maybe you hindered thema little.
meeboguest661179: Ryan, aside from the server copy of the email I sent in August, it makes no sense for you to try to convince me that I didn't send it.
meeboguest661179: Do you know a man by the name of [id#12]?
meeboguest661179: In relation to a boat you might have hired in the UK,
OPR: [id#12]?
OPR: Boat hired?
OPR: I dont think so??? Could be mistaken.
meeboguest661179: Did you hire a boat for a party with people for Living Legends?
OPR: Where in the UK?
meeboguest661179: (or any other name fo whatever it is you do)
OPR: I don't think so.
OPR: What year, month? What city
OPR: you do know there is an actuall evenst company called living legends right?
meeboguest661179: I don't have those details.
OPR: Again, SHOCKING. You dont have the details.
meeboguest661179: The only details I have are as follows, which is why I'm asking about it. "There is a man named [id#12] from the UK. who got fleeced by Ryan over the rental of a sailing vessel. He tried to sue for damages to the boat and for non-payment by Ryan. But, gave up on the suit when it appeared Ryan has nothing in the way of equity or funds. It seems Ryan was showing a bunch of backpackers a good time and trashed the boat."
OPR: HAHAHAHA that is so funny!!!!
OPR: Get me the year and month, thats the best one youve made up yet.
OPR: Funny as I have never had anything to do with backpackers in the UK.
meeboguest661179: I'm asking you about it becasue I don't have any other information about it.
OPR: So for me to have fleeced, must have been a contract... MUST HAVE!!!!!!!! Yet, watch out, no name to who told you, no details.
OPR: I am happy to tell you anything, althought your a coniving stalker.
OPR: Whats the next one......
OPR: ?
OPR: hi [id#05]
meeboguest661179: I didn't make it up. That was some information that came my way that I am unable to verify.
OPR: LOL hahaha COOL
OPR: Anything else like that, that was seriously golden.
meeboguest661179: Not like that, no.
OPR: so why did you not sleep?
OPR: its late in casula
meeboguest661179: I'm supposing the "[id#05]" comment about the possible source of that story. Tell me if it was about something else.
meeboguest661179: The page I linked to earlier about Gloabl Energy was just "remind" you what Global Energy was. The particular quote on that page was somewhat relevant, but not a particular point I wanted to have you check off your list of explainable actions/inactions/etc.
OPR: you are funny.
OPR: When your in prison, I hope they dont damage you to much.
meeboguest661179: You did say in other places that you had been in talks, and I think that is bollocks.
OPR: cool.... what you think again.
OPR: your not [id#03]
OPR: your not [id#07]
OPR: you might be [id#05]
meeboguest661179: And I'm not the big bad wolf.
OPR: not [id#08]
meeboguest661179: I'm not any of those people or anyone with a direct connection with those people.
meeboguest661179: I don't know who [id#08] is.
OPR: an ex
OPR: i know you
OPR: not sure who yet
OPR: [id#09]
meeboguest661179: I had no knowledge of you until the end of 2007.
OPR: you know whats going to happen to you if I ever find you right?
meeboguest661179: So far as I know, I don't know anyone (aside from people I've been in contact since the end of 2007) who knows you.
meeboguest661179: Yes. You're going to kill me and say it wasn't you. Or threaten to kill me and say you didn't threaten to kill me.
OPR: might not meet the people from homeland tomorrow, maybe schedule conflict
OPR: did i threaten to kill you??
meeboguest661179: Yes.
OPR: I am going to ask you to say everything to my face
OPR: when?
OPR: i will hug you when i see you
OPR: u there?
OPR: ok bye Source: Live chat conversation - http://opretreats.wordpress.com/your-profits/ (2009-03-09 03:30 to 09:20 UTC, approximate times)
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 11 March 2009 12:00 )
An intense email from Ryan; one I feel could be dangerous to reply to. Ryan insists I am calling his grandmother, and for that he is threatening my life. I am not calling his grandmother, and am powerless to stop it if someone else is doing it. What can I do when reason fails? From: Ryan Roth < ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com> Date: 2009-03-03 Subject: Re: Again To: " rfinfo@webscammers.net" < rfinfo@webscammers.net> Cc: [Ryan's email witness] Of course were getting somewhere MR. Stalker, you now belive me about my name, which is a huge thing all over the place. 'ryan was never an adviser to SSF' 'We have emailed SSF and never heard back from them' wow.... strange staements. Mr Stalker, you talk so much, as I am so blinded by what I do and your always so correct. Explain this one.... 2 men I work for have MBE's given by the Queen, which you can reference online, why do they work with me? Oh thats right, because I have a company and prove time and again what I do. But your a STALKER and don't pay any attention. Your have no evidnece, as you have not directly witnessed it - So this would imply someone has, sure yet it's not on the site to PROTECT them. The only person who needs to be protected is you, as your going to JAIL you little STALKER. Why are you so convinced I am this BAD guy you claim me to be, when time and again you are found to be mistaken. Your site was based on a teachers opinion of me, which was taken down, as it was not expressed in the right way. But where is that? Oh it's taken offline. But I'm the bad guy right Mr Stalker. Scrutiny of my work..... LOL Mr. Stalker, I have 2 Drs working with me on my NGO. Think of that one, noiw why do they work with me? Oh because I do my work and your a STALKER who preys on people. You TARGETTED my Grandmother and I will repay this to you in kind. our whole life will be taken apart. We will see how much you enjoy everything happening to you. MR STALKER/PEDOPHILE. Oh, wait, I wonder if I have forgetten to answer a question of yours, sure you will attack me for not answering something, as I will be avoiding. No wait, thats YOU who avoids my questions, thats right as your a STALKER. I remember a phrase from a movie called the Jackle - A woman was being tareggted by the MOB and offered protection, she replied 'Good guys don't hide'. Hows the hideing going. What your inclined to belive, your a STALKER you choose what to believe. Why would you target someone unless yoru a STALKER as you have never met me apparently. To protect people you say, you then say there is no point to say anything good about me? Why? Oh as then you would actually have to show videos of me doing humanitarin actions, rescuing and releasing turtles and what not...... but all my humanitarian work is why, oh a GRAND PLAN for something I guess you will say, or maybe because I'm a good guy and not a STALKER. Of course when a domain is registered, they check your ID.... no wait.... wait... oh, they don't. You got me there SHERLOCK.... quick, call the POLICE, I should be arrested.... wait.... wait.... shocking, I have not been. Your investigative skills are ASTOUNDING! Police - Why would they lie - They don't, you ARE BEING INVESTIGATED BY SCOTLAND YARD. NSW said they are investigating you, if they still are, I am not sure but Scotland yard are - Hate crimes. Conciencious Traveller - Traveller 2.0 etc who's companies are they? Sherlock. Ourplanet UK LTD, thats the company registered, thats my company. the others ARE NOT MY COMPANIES. I had maybe 20 names for the company originally, never operated under them. Name was never reranded, as it was only operating when we started calling it Ourplanet UK LTD. Suspicious Eco resort - Are you on DRUGS? This something people with MBE's are working with me on. YOUR A STALKER!!!!!!! At least I answered your traveller 2.0 etc questions. I CANT WAIT TO SEE YOU. My Grandmother is sick, but you are much SICKER. You did not listen to me, you keep calling her. You have the ball game you wanted now MR STALKER. All you have to do is pick up the phone to talk to me, to resolve everything, but you never do. Because I have never met you, you say, it would not be a problem, as I would not know your voice. But you won't will you, as STALKERS GET SCARED and you should be, as when the police get you, your name, family name and assocites will see what a STALKER you are. Business in the US - Look at your DAMN visa regulations STALKER - I can not work for other people while in the US, but I can operate my own business. OHHHHH shocking. Why is it shocking.... as your a STALKER that makes half arsed guess work. EVERYONE ASSOCIATED TO THE HATE SITE WILL BE HAVING A GREAT YEAR!!!! you want to target me you little STALKER, I took it on the chin. You want to preach freedom of speach - Only applies to US citizens. If your English like you claim, different ball game bub. You guys then target my Grandmother and you'll get my attention, which is what you wanted. For somoene who has never met me, when people you claim 'Ryan is this or that', well you will see.... YOU HAVE HUNTED ME for a long time and now, it's my turn to get you put behind bars. Why do you create a hate site? Why privacy protection in canada and hosted in germany - Why do you break the law. Why are you someone who has never met me, yet HATES me so much..... oh wait, I know - YOUR A STALKER. YOU ARE THE DANGER HERE and sooner or later, you will be arrested. Think about this one. I have people who work for and with me in Aus, UK, US, NZ and PNG. Who are you? Gonna get you MR. STAKER - You should never have targeted my Grandmother. [id#01] (you or not you, don't care anymore), but [id#01] will have a great year, [id#03] if I see he's still involved with you, him too. But [id#01] or not, you are who I want behind bars. Your going to be prosecuted for so man things..... SO MANY THINGS, criminal and civil. Look at me doing a masive email like you. Oh well, I don't mind talking to my STALKER.... your now going to say I love the attention. If you recall, I never use to have my profile in a prominent place on the websites... why you ask, AS I DON"T LIKE ATTENTION!!! But I was advised to be more prominent on the sites. So basically anything I do or say, you twist to your own agenda..... GO STALKER< GO STALKER GO STALKER. Do this for me, if you have nothing to hide. Go to a police station - Talk with the police, show them what you have done on the hate site. Ask them to contact me, to CC me on correspondence. Lets see who they arrest. Thats not a bad sugestion actually, unless your scarred you will be arrested. Wait, now you will say, you don't have thte time or won't play my games... yet you made a website, a logo and all the time you spent.... I think you do have the time. Oh MR STALKER.... what it must be like to be a STALKER. I could actually understand if we had met and just didnt get along, but you say I have never done anything to you. Why did you never contact me before you made the website? Oh, as your a STALKER. Source: Email from Ryan Flynn (2009-03-03 08:40 -0800 PST)
Last Updated ( Wednesday, 11 March 2009 09:52 )
Ryan posted a video, "Response to Webscammers.net" (2009-02-14), on his intentions21 account on YouTube which he embedded on the "My Stalker!" page on his Intentions 21 blog. This video contains a large number of inaccuracies and false claims. webscamers.net has never contacted Ryan's grandmother and has no knowledge of any other person doing so. Similarly, webscammers.net has never visited nor vandalised Ryan's home, and has no knowledge as to who committed the reported vandalism. With regards to the report, there is nothing to indicate any connection to webscammers.net. Ryan is also obsessed with the notion that a "Jeff" created and maintains webscammers.net, which is not the case. Ryan claims that webscammers.net has "targeted" his friends and business associates for four years. I had not heard of Ryan or his projects before December 2007. The website was created in July 2008 after Ryan complained to furl.net about the rfinfo account (which furl.net then closed) containing links to information about his companies, organisations and activities, as well as to other sites that discussed them. The quote Ryan makes from the email I wrote to Chris is taken out of context, and follows a paragraph inviting Chris to send good things about Ryan. Chris did not respond to that email. Other emails cited in Ryan's video were not written by me, and to state that they are is incorrect. Ryan also incorrectly states that webscammers.net does not provide "any proof or evidence of anything [he has] ever done wrong". Please see other articles on this site with evidence of, for example, Ryan posing as a doctor. Other evidence mainly links him to previous (names of) organisations and businesses which he claims not to have "operated under". What he means by that is dubious, since he was certainly recruiting and promoting under these names, regardless of whether an actual company was registered. In the video, Ryan says: We emailed them recently, they responded, "We don't have any evidence against you currently."
The image displayed at that point of the video is a text version of the quote, which is significantly different to what Ryan said. Here is the full paragraph for context: You certainly have done some interesting research in your time, Ryan. You raise some interesting points about the way charities and so on work, for example, but it seems you have only done so as a pretense for grafting your ideas to people's pockets. I don't currently have direct evidence of you taking money from people - you have never taken money from me - but a very large question hangs over how you have funded yourself in the time since you have been living out of the UK.
Saying I don't have "direct evidence of [Ryan] taking money from people" is quite specific, and says nothing about indirect evidence about money, information from third parties or any kind of evidence about other things. In any case, you are encouraged to do your own research rather than simply rely on the information contained in this site - Google, Yahoo, Ecxite and other companies have capable search services at your disposal - and, just as Ryan asks for webscammers.net to provide "proof or evidence" of the things he has done wrong, I recommend that you ask Ryan to provide "proof or evidence" of his claims, knowledge or expertise. Ryan has issued death threats and other threats of physical violence towards some people, including myself, and that is why I do not want Ryan to know who I am. I am not hiding from the authorities and have been in contact with police and other agencies in Australia, the United Kingdom and Canada. I do not make threats towards Ryan, his friends, family or associates. My purpose is to prevent members of the general public from making uninformed decisions about Ryan's supposed humanitarian, travel and tourism investment projects. Ryan tends to cite references indicating that (technically) he has not done anything "wrong" or gone against his word. From this view, it is perhaps more accurate to say that Ryan never (or rarely) actually promises anything, and on that he delivers. If you didn't read the fine print, that's your problem, not Ryan's. If you signed a contract that doesn't give you adequate protection, well, you should have read the contract more carefully. This seems to be Ryan's viewpoint and defence against what most reasonable people would consider unfair or dishonest. Please take that into account before you consider parting with any of your money or your time.
Last Updated ( Saturday, 07 March 2009 11:14 )
After a series of emails back and forth between Ryan and myself, with copies to Ryan's email witnesses (including a NSW Police officer), Ryan sent this, apparently only to me. From: Ryan Flynn Roth <ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:34:55 -0800
Subject: Again
To: rfinfo@webscammers.net <rfinfo@webscammers.net>
How can you target my grandmother, what is wrong with you. If you are reasonable, you will see what you have done is not right. I am not taking what you have done personally and have not been concerned about your site for a long time, but you contacting my grandmother or people contacting her because of your site. It has gone to far. Your original purpose was to warn all those people I might take advantage of, based on people donating money to white orchid and the misappropriation of funds. You have no evidence or people to say I have done this. So the basis of your site is moot. You make claims against me that can not be substantiated. You made a mistake in creating the site and I now respectfully ask you to take it down. It is doing nothing but harm to other people and those people are not myself. If you take it down now, nothing will happen past this point. If you do not, there will be no forgiveness. I have not taken any of your accusations personally, as in your own words, you were trying to protect people. But this was based on incorrect information. Cancer is not funny, stop this now. If something happens to her because of you, you will have no where to hide. My family will get involved, asking me about you. My family and I will not stop to find you. You crossed a line, which you keep crossing. If you know people from my childhood, from my past. Ask them about my brother, ask them about my father. You do not want to have them involved in this. If you don't believe me, ask your friend [id#03].... ask these people who apparently know me so well. Ask them if it is advisable to do what you are right now. I have no care what happens to you if they get involved. I deal with your hate site, my grandmother is nothing to do with any of this. You also keep mentioning about me seeking mental help? Seriously. A hate site based on unsubstantiated opinion was created and you tell me to seek mental help. It needs to STOP!!!! How would you like all this to happen to you? Ryan Source: Email from Ryan Flynn (2009-02-09 02:34 UTC)
Ryan emailed again, repeating some unanswered questions from last time, but still essentially accusing webscammers.net of harassing his grandmother and adding a new allegation of having vandalised his home in Sydney. It is clear Ryan still believes me to be another person known to him, who it is his apparent intent to accuse, and that person appears to now be in direct contact with the NSW Police officer Ryan has enjoined to the conversation to discuss these false accusations. My response to Ryan's email follows. You can read a copy of Ryan's email posted on his Intentions 21 blog - An Email exchange with Webscammers.net - which, if he later removes, I will post a copy of here. I'll mention that I have made an error writing in my response that the copy Ryan posted online did not contain the outrageous disclaimer that was attached to his email. Ryan, I received a request from an involved party to remove certain names from webscammers.net. Articles containing the names were published after you had made the names public on you website(s), however the request is reasonable and I have redacted the contents of those articles. I can only assume that the request would also be made to you with regards to content on your site(s) if the person making the request was inclined to contact you at all. In line with my aims for consumer, public and victim advocacy, I make that request to you on their behalf. It could be difficult to have this conversation without using certain names, so a basic request for third party privacy with regards to the content of these emails, if published, is that names and contact details of third parties be redacted or removed. You have intentionally made yourself a public figure. Your name, your image, your general identity. That is not to say that your identity is in any sense without value, but rather that you are not a private individual. You have publicly announced yourself, your "organisations", companies and activities, and engage in open public discussion on the issues you are involved with. As such, your public opinions and activities are open to public scrutiny, and this courtesy of redacting names will not be extended to your name generally, nor on request. I will use my own discretion as to whether I disclose certain communications - I am not unreasonable. The outrageous disclaimer attached to your previous emails is (even if unenforceable) not compatible with the concept of open discussion. It represents, to me, one of the scammy tricks you try to play on people, like the terms and conditions you put on a $1000 "prize" you offered in an online competition for a White Orchid t-shirt design. To refresh your memory, the terms and conditions you offered made the "prize" more like a royalty, and was dependant on you making a profit of 10 times that amount. In case my meaning is not clear to you, that is an example of a scam. You are hereby notified that by posting content to any part of webscammers.net, including but not limited to the website and email accounts, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to webscammers.net, its administration and associates, an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide licence (with the right to sublicence) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such content, and to grant and authorise sublicences of the foregoing. This notice now appears on the webscammers.net Contact Us page. Additionally, for the purposes of responding to (and sharing information about) your recent email, I'll note that there can be no assumption of confidentiality as you have published a copy (without the disclaimer) on your Intentions 21 blog at http://intentions21.wordpress.com, in which case you can suppose I am discussing the contents of that public post rather than your email. This is not to be read as an encouragement for you to try harder to "protect" yourself or entrap me into accidentally breaching (supposed) copyright, etc next time - I'm saying don't try it again. I am not who you have been saying I am, and continuing to say it does not make it so. You and I have never met. I'm not the brother of your ex-partner. I am not someone you know. It is true that I am hiding my identity from you. I do not wish for you to know who I am, because, at least in part, it appears to me that you have issued a death threat to your ex-partner's brother and made threats to at least one other person to my knowledge. I am not making any threats to you, nor do I wish you any physical harm. My aim is primarily to protect unwitting members of the public from becoming involved in your outrageous schemes and/or "investment" opportunities. A secondary aim is to convince you to seek professional help to somehow transition from your current fantasy life to one that more closely resembles reality, as uncomfortable as reality may be for most of us. I don't know your grandmother or her contact details. I have never called her. I have never had anyone else call her. No-one has discussed with me having called her. The incident you are complaining about has absolutely nothing to do with me, and I insist that you stop saying otherwise. I sympathise with your grandmother's illness and distress she may have suffered in receiving such a phonecall or phonecalls, and I am insulted and offended by your suggestion that I would do such a thing. I am regarding your doing so as a tactic you have used in the past to paint yourself (in this case indirectly) as a victim for the purpose of gaining (undeserved) sympathy from your target audience - be it your web readership, people in your "foundation", your friend in the police, or whoever it should be. Similarly, I have never been to your house in Sydney, let alone vandalised it. Today is the first time, to my recollection, that I've ever heard of this alleged vandalism. Your address was made known to me, so far as I recall, by your ex-partner's brother, who I might reasonably suppose had easy access to such information, but had also been made publicly available by you in your domain registration details for whiteorchidfoundation.org. The reference was made, as you are well aware, in conjunction with a real estate listing for the property for a thousand dollars per week, in order to draw attention to the sort of lifestyle you might have been living on the basis of some con (according to your ex-partner's brother). At the time I was under the impression you no longer lived there. Further to that, I was in London when I learned of the address, and I have not been to Australia in the time between learning the address and now. The vandalism incident has absolutely nothing to do with me, and I insist that you stop saying otherwise. Again, I am offended at your suggestion that I would intentionally frighten your ex-partner's child. In addition, I am concerned, as is the brother, that you have posted a video of the child on YouTube and embedded it on your website. What exactly is the purpose of that? You, apparently, are living in LA. A member of the couchsurfing.com website contacted your ex-partner's brother after meeting Ryan in LA. For whatever reason that person was suspicious of you and searched for information about you online. You were (and clearly still are) using the name "Ryan Roth", not your real name Ryan Flynn. In any case, the couchsurfer sent a photo to your ex-partner's brother. In no way did I arrange to have a photo taken of you. However, I am informed that, after the photograph was posted on webscammers.net, you proceeded to make threatening phonecalls to people you thought might have taken the photo or somehow been involved. Is this the same Ryan Flynn who has a public face and name and isn't hiding anything, or some other imagined character named "Ryan F Roth"? Ryan Flynn and/or Ryan Roth are banned from couchsurfing.com, and the couchsurfing.com administration are keen to learn of any other profiles you might have created there. Your use of the site under a false name is a huge breach of trust for the entire community. Just who are you, Ryan? Are you Ryan Flynn from Southampton in the UK, or Ryan F Roth, ex-tow-in-surfer from California? Do you even know? Check your passport - assuming you have a passport. What does it say your name is? Where does it say you are from? Ryan Flynn? Southampton? How can that be? Flip ahead a few pages and check your US visa. Has it fallen out? Is there some mistake? Surely you would not be working and/or operating your "business" without a visa. I really don't know what to say, Ryan. I don't know if the things you do are all part of some mass delusion, or if you more-or-less know what you're doing and are grifting your way through life (ie continually pulling little - maybe big - scams). Explicitly telling you what I think makes some thing or other you are doing or have done a scam might serve only to help you hide from or change that particular detail in future. I don't want you to end up in prison, really, I don't. I will concede that it is possible I felt that way at some time in the past, but I can't clearly remember, and my feeling towards you is not like that now. It is possible that you're attributing a quote to me that is from somebody else. If you forward me a copy of say a paragraph or two containing that statement I might better be able to recognise if it was my own writing - on its own it seems not to be. Similarly, I don't want you to be hurt, made homeless or anything else that you might regard as a punishment. That doesn't, however, mean I think you should be left entirely to your own devices and allowed to continue the charade you're playing of the international humanitarian legend, drawing on the good will of those around you for a cause that ultimately you cannot carry out, and were you to attempt to carry out would be exceedingly dangerous and almost certainly illegal. We don't need to have the argument about the details of this island school for rescued girls nonsense, it's been had over and over, and you have never made a convincing argument. Ever. You have claimed in the past to have sourced an island for the school. Sounds amazing. Incredible. So incredible, it might just be... untrue. Unless you have some specific meaning for the term "source" which is significantly different to the concept of being significantly on the way to actually owning or even just controlling it. The friends you lived with in the UK never believed you saved any girls from brothels in Asia. If the people who are closest to you don't believe you, why should anyone else? Saying it is secret is no cover for something which is extremely unlikely that you could have pulled off. Especially as you have gone public with your identity and saying you have done such a thing in the past. Of course it would be exceedingly foolish to announce that you had done such a thing. The fact that it creates some sense of danger around you is only to pique people's interest in your story - another version of this sympathy that you manufacture. Let's move along to something arguably less sensitive, less dangerous: your talks with top scientists and governments about your free water and energy project(s). If ever you wanted to demonstrate your legitimacy, this would be the way. It would be easy. And it would be, I think, quite wonderful and amazing. in fact it would be so amazing that it should be obvious that the, as terrible as it is, issue of child sex trafficking would be almost insignificant in comparison. You certainly have done some interesting research in your time, Ryan. You raise some interesting points about the way charities and so on work, for example, but it seems you have only done so as a pretense for grafting your ideas to people's pockets. I don't currently have direct evidence of you taking money from people - you have never taken money from me - but a very large question hangs over how you have funded yourself in the time since you have been living out of the UK. Swimming with sharks, skydiving, all these exciting adventures you (and/or your "Global Nomads") go on - I'm sure it's all great fun. Advertising on a building in LA. I'm impressed. How much is all this worth again? How many donations have you accepted? These seem to be the only real things that have happened, and the most important point you seem to drive in the presentation of them is about how they are all free - I'm not sure if you are gloating about how you have managed to get people to give you stuff, or if it just that you are obsessed with the idea. By the way, I think it is appalling that you have forced the teacher you had a disagreement with to remove his entire blog. I don't know what you threatened him with, but I'm guessing it had something to do with threatening his job, and I'm sure he's somewhat devastated by the whole thing. That is pretty low, Ryan, and I don't know why you're acting so pleased about it, because it makes you look like a complete bastard. Really, it does. I don't know what's going to happen. I imagine that, as your options become fewer and fewer, you will become more and more desperate, and something will have to give. I can't say I'd like to be around you at that point, but I can't say that I'd much like to be around you now either as you are probably absolutely furious with me. But what would you have me do, just shut down the website and pretend nothing happened? That might seem convenient for you at the moment, but it doesn't seem right to me. I have some other emails to write, including a reply to the Toronto Police Service. You have taken more than enough of my time today. The Administrator
webscammers.net Source: Email sent from webscammers.net (2009-02-04 00:23 UTC)
Last Updated ( Saturday, 07 March 2009 09:50 )
Ryan has written, the first time identifying himself as Ryan, to webscammers.net, using the online contact form. A copy appears on Ryan's Intentions 21 website so it appears to be genuine. My response, addressing only the issue regarding the alleged phonecall or phonecalls to Ryan's grandmother, follows. Dear [id#01] - (If you want to play games thats fine).
Dear Webscammers, I would simply like to ask you the following few questions and see if I am this devil you believe me to be. 1. What have I don't to you or others?
Please do not tell me I know, as I obviously do not. 2. Why are you so convinced white orchid and the retreats companies are scams? 3. Why do you harass business associates and friends and use your own website as proof of me being a bad guy? 4. What could I possibly do to get your website taken down? I have asked this before and you never responded. 5. Why do you hide? You say I can't punch my way out of a paper bad, yet then say people are scared of me. 6. Have you ever thought you are wrong? 7. The original blog about me has been taken down, the fake accounts you made taken down and more. Yet you are the only thing left online. Why? Who are you? What did I do to you? I expect you won't respond or you will not answer most questions. But these are no unreasonable. Imagine your wrong, Imagine all my intentions are good. Just look at Sly - He posted lies about me, 2 days later he stepped up to the plate and admitted he was entirely wrong, but then reacted badly and searched for more things to say about me, but this time he could not lie as so many people found his accusations to be false. Why don't we have an open dialog on your site? So I can correct all these things I have apparently done. But with one stipulation, you will leave all personal relationships out of this conversation. Why you might ask.... as my personal life has nothing to do with my apparent business you feel is incorrect and calling my grandmother crossed a line. You have attacked me for a long time, but my grandmother was just to far. I want this resolved. She has Cancer for Christ sake..... What the hell is wrong with you. Ryan Flynn Roth
Webscammers.net response: Hello Ryan, this response will address only the most pressing issue, that of the allegation of a phone call (or possibly multiple phonecalls) to your grandmother. If your grandmother has received harassing or threatening phonecalls, she should report these directly to her local police. It may or may not be appropriate to also inform her telephone provider - the police should be able to give her advice or information relating to that. I personally had no involvement in, nor any fore-knowledge of, any such phonecall. I do not condone nor do I encourage such activity. I do not know who your grandmother is, where she lives, nor do I know her telephone number. I am only aware of any such phonecall from your own allegation(s). If they are true, I can only agree that such action is inappropriate, regardless of whether or not your grandmother has cancer. If such a phonecall was made, whether it was made by [id#01], whom you openly accuse of having made such a phonecall or phonecalls, or any other person I have been in contact with, I couldn't say. I have not heard from [id#01] for some time, and neither he nor anyone else whom I have been in contact with has mentioned nor alluded to making such a phonecall. The only time any mention of you grandmother was made prior to these allegations was in reference to her lending you money a few years ago when you left the UK (under circumstances not discussed here to keep the focus on the current issue). To quote from your whiteorchid.wordpress.com site, "... [id#01] recently called Ryan's Grandmother to berate her, like he has many people in Ryan's life. Ryan's Grandmother has Cancer and [id#01]'s action (webscammers.net), have just gone to far." (retrieved 2009-02-01, http://whiteorchid.wordpress.com/webscammersnet/). Not to lessen the seriousness of any threat or threats that may have been made, I ask what you mean by using the term "berate". The Free Online Dictionary offers definitions "to rebuke or scold angrily and at length", "to scold harshly", and "censure severely or angrily" (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/berate). The term does not imply threats, though it appears you want to give the impression that threats were made, which is entirely different to criticism, reprimand or reproval. Having said that, I also do not agree that contacting your grandmother in that fashion to be appropriate, and similarly do not condone it. The intention of this questioning is to clarify what your specific allegation is. Despite that specific detail, I will have you know that, as the owner and administrator of the webscammers.net domain and website, and also a person completely separate to the [id#01] whom you accuse, I categorically deny having made such a phonecall and hold your statements on your websites and elsewhere that I did make such a phonecall or phonecalls to be completely false. Your message contains several other points and questions not addressed by this response. That is not to say that I choose to ignore them, since I have a great deal to say about most of them, but doing so now is significantly less important than addressing this issue regarding the alleged phonecall(s). It would perhaps be constructive for your to reconsider your apparent steadfast belief that I am someone you know, whether that be [id#01] of anyone else. A copy of this message is addressed to [id#01] for his reference. I suggest that we arrange appropriate and mutually agreeable third parties to copy in to our future mail conversations as observers to mitigate possible disputes about the content or authenticity of our communications and obviate the need to continually publish public messages. I could conceivably create a public or even private online discussion forum for this purpose, but email is significantly easier to keep track of and considerably less work. I will contact some people who are already involved to see if any of them are agreeable to take on such a role. Our communications will not generally be regarded as confidential, though it is not my intention to cause you or your family endangerment and my own discretion will be used with regards to what information is or is not made public. The Administrator
webscammers.net Source: Email from webscammers.net (2009-02-02 12:20 UTC)
Last Updated ( Saturday, 07 March 2009 11:28 )
webscammers.net administration is preparing a response to http://whiteorchid.wordpress.com/webscammersnet/ (2009-01-16). Please hold. An unexpected catastrophe (unrelated to this task) has occurred, so the response here will have to wait. Over the last few years, Ryan has made some enemies and by far the most public is a privacy protected website. ‘As flattered as I am about this website and being stalked by [id#01], there is nothing on this site, that holds any water. Just look for yourself, where is the proof, where is the evidence. Years of accusations and not one piece of evidence. Why? Surely there must something concrete. ‘. Ryan F. Roth Unfortunately it has taken us over 6 months to find out who was responsible for the site, but now we have. One of Ryan’s past relationships, has a brother called [id#01]. [id#01] and Ryan had a very stormy relationship, due to [id#01]’s relationship with his sister. webscammers.netand rfinfo.wordpress.com Both sites were created and maintained by [id#01]. He works with computers for a living. Webscammers is privacy protected in Canada and hosted in Germany and this is why it took so long to find out who was behind it. If Webscammers is legitimate, why hide who made the website? Why is there no evidence provided against Ryan? Ryan has a very public profile on this site and Webscammers hides. The site also makes many suggestive remarks on the site, without making any definite accusations, as they have no proof on anything. Such as, if Ryan has done something wrong to you, please report him to your local authority. This statement is designed to make you question Ryan, without actually making an accusation. You should report anyone who has done wrong to you, that is a very simple premise, but making this statement, it’s designed for defamation. As it says on webscammers.net - make your own opinion. Ryan with a public face to his projects or an anonymous website. Why hide? Also, we will post comments, if anyone wishes to make them, on this page. One response to webscammers latest claim of me never being an adviser to SSF Cambodia. Delivered-To: ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com
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Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:14:23 +0700
From: "Sao Sary" <ssfcambodia@gmail.com>
To: "Ryan Flynn" <ryanwhiteorchid@gmail.com>
Subject: I don't ready putting you as new director yet
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Hello Ryan,
************************************************************************** **************************************************************** We so far use you as adviser on the project you promoted. ************************** **************************************************************************
**************************************************************************
Regards,
Vichetr Source: Webscammers.net (page title, not website) - whiteorchid.wordpress.com (2009-01-16)
Last Updated ( Saturday, 07 March 2009 11:24 )
This message was received via the Contact webscammers.net page (2008-12-21 09:14 UTC). The Director of SSF Cambodia (the 'real', Cambodian Director) says that he is a victim of Ryan Roth (Flynn) too. The magician that White Orchid supposedly sent was duped too! Supposedly, he was promised that Ryan would take care of his expenses etc, but was never reimbursed. Ryan was not asked to be a director or advisor for SSF and they have asked to have bogus information taken down from Ryan's various web postings. This is shameful and really sinks to an all time low for Ryan. Just thought you would like to know.
2009-03-04 update: I sent an email to SSF Cambodia in August 2008 to see what they had to say about Ryan's involvement and did not receive a reply. After receiving this submission claiming SSF have a problem with Ryan Roth / Flynn, I made a new attempt to establish the identity of SSF Cambodia. I approached UNICEF UK, asking how to identify or validate a Cambodian organisation, but didn't in the end receive a helpful answer. idealist.org have a listing for SSF Cambodia showing their website as www.ssfcambodia.org, and this, to me, seems quite reasonable. After a series of intense emails from Ryan around the end of February 2009, I spent some time updating this article (2009-03-03) to make it more balanced, presenting Ryan's evidence of being an advisor: an email apparently from Vichetr, the director of SSF Cambodia; and a SSF blog post announcing a partnership with Our Planet Retreats. I though that it seemed odd that Ryan's complaint was specifically about his being an advisor with no mention of the rest of the submission, including the accusation that SSF is in some way a victim, that SSF had asked him to take down false information from his websites, and that he had not reimbursed Mickey (the magician) for expenses as promised. My impression of this was that Ryan was making a noise about something small to make one forget about the larger problems. The following day I sent a new email to Vichetr at SSF Cambodia, this time receiving a reply. It sounds like Ryan made a bunch of promises that he didn't come through on ("Ryan used to promise... but we didn’t receive"; "since the arrival of the magician, everything sounds promises are on the promise without outputs presented") and SSF "have a lot of works to do in helping our target beneficiaries than spending our waste time on the Ryan case". Once again I'm appalled by Ryan's behaviour - not only for the disappointment and hardship he caused Vichetr and surrounding community in Cambodia, but also for his self-centred attention-seeking grab at recognition he decidedly does not deserve. Vichetr sent a carbon-copy of that email to Ryan (and to another address that I suppose is Mickey's), so Ryan can see for himself what Vichetr had to say. The blog entry Ryan cites is an article titled "OPR Farming for the future", which announces "a partnership with Our Planet Retreats". The link on Ryan's site is to ssfcambodia.wordpress.com, which has since been deleted, but a copy of the OPR Farming for the future article (2008-07-22) appears on ssfcambodia.blogspot.com.
Last Updated ( Saturday, 07 March 2009 08:43 )
This message was received via the Contact webscammers.net page (2008-12-18 05:05 UTC). I have been keeping a file on this guy for a long time. He was entrapped by a friend of mine that works in human trafficking (and does a great job at it, for real). He was exposed for being a fraud then, but he was living in Australia. Ryan is a dangerous guy that needs to be institutionalized. Thank you for your work - it is worthwhile and it keeps people from being duped.
Last Updated ( Thursday, 15 January 2009 07:54 )
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